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2007-05-08 10:54:23

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Pro-Choice..Woman's Choice

If you think women should have a choice about abortions then you are at the right place. Feel free to tell stories or just leave a comment. I would really like a banner! I started this wiki because I feel that every woman should have the choice. I am also going to have a page for "pro-lifers" to have a say, but first we need more people to join! I will have pictures of the March in DC, the largest humans right march in the world! 1.2 MILLION! please leave a comment on why you are pro-choice!

PC stories feel free to write anything!

pro-choice banners!

PC pics put up your pics!

american terrorism - become aware of crazy pro-life extremists

[Vampire Mariam] I believe women should have the right to do what they think is right when the get pregnant. I know some women who get pregnant by accident may not be able to raise a child, or want to raise a child. What if the condom broke? What if she got raped?...it is her choice....I AM NOT pro-abortion!!.....it is for the woman to decide!!!! not the goverment or any one else!

[Scooz] I must agree that women should be allowed to have abortions, but I do not like the ones that wait til they are 6 months along or more because by then the baby has had too much time to develop. But I have been raped before and if he would have gotten me pregnant and I could not abort his child, it would not have been a pretty picture. Do not bring a child into this world if you do not want it, because you are ruining their life and yours.

[Rondel] I have seen too many situations which could best be addressed by terminating the pregnancy, and have myself been through the procedure, including in a situation where the egg, though fertilized, did not develop; without that procedure, the hyperemesis which caused me to throw up every 15 minutes round the clock could not have been stopped -- and I would still have wound up miscarrying, because there was no developing embryo, just a "blighted ovum".
The worst, though, was a situation in which a relative of mine faced a back-alley abortion after an incestuous relationship forced on her by her adoptive step-father, in the days before abortion was legalized in the US. I will never be able to understand *anyone* who can claim that a person in that position should be constrained by law from terminating a pregnancy which has not yet produced a child.
Where there is no brain activity, human life is deemed to have ended, so I cannot consider it to have begun when the brain and nervous system have not yet formed and connected

[Kayne] abortion should be legal , what if you were a crack whore and you got pregnant by accicent ? do you think that child is going to be happy ? no . What if you were 16 and you had a accident ? do you think she will can take care of it ? probably not
abortion = legal!!!!!!!

[Delight] What drives me insane is that fact that the people who don't support abortion and wish to ban it also don't support the health care for the woman when she has her child, or even before. They dont fund the orphanage, or somewhere that can help her raise it. They dont fund the homeless shelters enough because if the woman has a child that she can not handle or afford, thats where she is going to end up. Its an idiodic thing to abolish abortion because freedom requires it, and also because there is nothing to help the people who are forced to have children because of it. The people who dont get to go to school because they had to leave to have and care for their child. When such occurs, if the woman does not marry a rich man, which is even more unlikely because she already has a kid (Atleast statistically), she will become a lower class member of society, whoooooo guess what peoples, is not supported well enough at all by a government that would abolish abortion.
If a woman were to die, if she would keep the child, or the child were to die. Is that okay? If they were to die of starvation or cold because they cannot now afford heat or food or clothes, is that okay? Is it alright for someone to make a decision for everyone else that makes them, instead of ridding themselves of an unwanted pregnancy, die from hunger or cold? Its an extreme version of the situation, but it does happen. I know that for a fact. So a painful misrable death, or a painless one? If you're personally religious, is that right in the eyes of your deity? If you're not, is that right in the eyes of your morals?
What if the woman was raped? What about keeping the child then. The psychological damages from that would be amazing. For both mother and child.
There is also the thing that the people who get rid of it in the first place are men.
Also, think. If a woman were to find out that she was going to have a child who was seriously retarted or disabled. Such to a point that the kid would not live past birth, or to a point that the kid would be absolutly misrable for their entire life, if they survived that long. Such to a point that if the parent died, they would end up in an institution of some kind. Is that alright? Does that make sense to have a child like that? Does it make sense to create someone who will have a horrible and misrable existance?
Lastly, why do they think that they can make such a decision for the rest of the world. Its amazingly stupid. Those who abolish it could just not have abortions themselves. Do they really have to take control of everone elses choice, or lack of? Do they really have the Right to make it so that no one else could have even the option of having an abortion?
Sorry about the rant, but its just how i feel about it, and was relieved to be able to write it down and get it all out.

[Dil*]:
This is a touchy subject that is not just black and white, there's alot of grays in it. Sure It's terrible to get rid of a unborn child, but wouldn't it be just as terrible if a child was born to parents who didn't really want them in the first place. They would grow up in a hellish environment with little love and maybe it would of been better if they weren't born. Young mothers are confused and sometimes not able to take care of a child properly as well. I also think women should have a bigger say in this issue, hell, guys don't have to carry the child around in their bloody stomachs. I'm not a religious person and i frankly don't care if you're religious or not, BUT...when peoiple try to bring religion into things like this, it's very irritating to me. If the woman wants the abortion and she's not religous, she doesn't need bloody religious fanatics parading around the abortion clinic. If they're not religious, they DO NOT care about your ideals and whatnot. It's their decision if they want to get an abortion and they have to live with the consequences. Oh well, I'm going to hell now, wait, I've come to that conclusion ages ago...don't mind me, i have a messed up sense of humor. (I'm an aetheist anyways, so i don't care)

[Veltzeh] (founder of Pro-Choice League)
In my opinion, abortion should be legal, offered free in hospitals and encouraged if the woman has the slightest doubt that she wouldn't want to have the baby. In today's over-populated world all children should be wanted and they shouldn't have to spend even a small part of their lives in orphanages living off of the society's money that could be used for something else. Yes, I realize my opinion is very harsh, but there it is.
Finally, a question to think about: Why are those who oppose abortion often religious fanatics who likely have never read even basic biology, while those who are pro-choice are often doctors and other educated people who know their biology, physiology and even ethics?

[Hermes322] I think that it's better to get an abortion done by a doctor, in an office as opposed to a back alley by a creepy guy who offers to show kids puppies.

[Icetigris] I believe that the only people who should even have a say in these laws are women. Men don't have to deal with it so they should stay out of it. Also, I find it ridiculous that people value the life of a 40-celled blastocyst over a thinking, truly living, conscious woman who can feel physical and emotional pain. That ball of cells has no more consciousness than a potato; potatoes don't have rights, so why should something cognitively equivalent have rights, just because it has human DNA? I was at the March for Women's Lives and saw a great sign pointing out an interesting parallel: in China, the government forces abortion, in the US, the government is trying to force women to have babies they don't want. In both situations, it's not whether or not the people want to kill the baby (as anti-choice people are wont to say), it's about whether or not women have a choice about what to do with their own bodies. Whatever happened to separation of church and state?

[FireGypsy] I have read over your opinions on pro-choice. I beleive the mother should have a choice. I also beleive that abortion should be legal, under certain conditions. If you were a victim of incest, if the baby has a fatal or developing fatal disease, If the baby HAS aquired a fatal disease from the mother, if either the baby or the mother or both will die during pregnancy or labor. Other than that they abortionist should tell that mother NO! Millions of Women every year have abortions simply because they cant afford the kid, their parents wont let them, they have been raped, or because they simply dont want one. Well if you cant afford one...you shouldnt have had sex. If you dont want one...you shouldnt have had sex. If the mother doesnt want the baby for reasons such as stated above then the mother should have the baby and give it up for adoption. Those doctors should say "No. maam you cannot kill that baby in you. That baby is in no danger and neither are you. You must have the baby and put it up for adoption if you dont want it that bad."

[Arbor] It is simply the choice for which I stand. Give me the CHOICE. If you are against abortion then keep your child. Do not try to make my decision for me; let me deal with the consequences.

[sophomoric] I've debated a long while whether or not I should put up my stance here, but I've concluded that perhaps I should. This is a page about choice, and none should question my stance lest they wish for their own to be put to question. I am in a position where there is significant moral confliction. To begin, I am a vegetarian. What does this have to do with pro-choice? A lot. Just because I have taken a moralistic position against something that I feel is wrong, does not mean that I, or anyone else have the right to impose this position on others. I believe that animals and babies should live, but I do not believe that it is a pick and choose situation. In order to follow an omnivorous diet, animals have to die, and this is a concept that people don't even blink an eye at most of the time.

Pregnant women (I will not call them mothers under such circumstances) that decide they should like to get an abortion are rather inversely viewed as evil and terrible individuals. That carries a double standard from a moralistic perspective. Therefore, it is my stance that I don't respect the arguments of any pro-choicers unless they don't have a moralistic double standard.

That may seem a little cold and heartless, but as I regard animals as highly as I do humans (higher in a wondrous variety of cases) I find it almost comical that people can use an argument of potential. We, as humans, have warped the course of nature more than any other creature, under the argument that this is our earth given to us from any variety of deities. If that is their argument, then fine, mine is that women were given their bodies from any number of deitical figures, and just as we have spoiled the earth, let them do to their body as they will; there are far worse ways a child could die, all of them taking place when they are aware of their own existence.

As for the adoption argument; the world is over-populated as it is, outlawing abortion would cause another massive rise in the population, by millions if previous figures hold true.

Conclusion: It truly IS a choice just as we all, invariably, have choices.

[Tolmeni] I think it's rather telling that most of the anti-abortion zealots are male, who will never suffer through a pregnancy or labor that threatens their life and the life of their child. I don't believe in abortions when the fetus is too far along, but when the life of the woman is in serious danger, or there is no chance of she or the baby having any hope of a positive life, or if the baby will be born addicted to illegal substances...I think abortion is a viable option.

[AbLam] Whether it is the right or wrong thing to do, it is still a choice. No one but the woman who is having the baby should be able to choose. I'm sorry, but there isn't a good excuse for outlawing women's right to choose. Period.

[P(e)Ta] NO-ONE but the woman involved had the right to make a decision as to whether or not she goes through with her pregnancy (especially not conservative twats who are male and will never know the pain of having to choose). However, abortion should not be used as a form of emergency contraception. Girls still have to be responsible, but the choice should still be there!

[bodhranbabe] What I hate are the bumper stickers that say, "Smile, your mother was pro-life!" I'm sorry, but my mother was pro-choice, and she chose to have me. Being pro-choice is just as much about the positive choice as it is the negative. It's about the option.

[a faerie tale] When they scream "murderer" at me because I'm Pro-Choice, I feel the panic rise in my throat. I want to run, I want to yell, "Not me! I'm a moral person. I'm trying to help!" Those people have a right, I guess. It's what they believe. So I've got to face it, and be strong-- . POC's, "products of conception", that's what we're supposed say. "tissue" "termination" But when that machine starts, it's not just "tissue" that's sucked out. It's life: potentially human life. And like the Buddhists, I believe in "reverence for life". That's why I'm a vegetarian. But I also believe that conception should be a blessing. My brother's wife: when she's pregnant she sings lullabies, she organizes everything she eats and drinks-- she makes herself a perfect vessel. But you can't order a woman to do that! Not by bullying! What makes those people out there think a person can be frightened into goodness? Oh, give it up for adoption, they say! How can a mother do that? Carry a baby under her heart for nine long months and then give it away? Once it grows and moves it's a part of you. Loved, the way you love your own knees, or your breasts. And does your responsibility end, if you hand it over? What about Lisa Steinberg's mother? Does she sleep nights, now? She thought her daughter was going to be given every advantage, not tortured to death. Even a good adoption-- suppose you're a concert violinist, and your baby goes to a family that's tone deaf, that thinks music is noise....? Who would want to live that life? Who would want to give a child that life?

Add your name to the list of pro-choice people

1. [Vampire Mariam]
2. [Kisama]
3. [brandi_080786]
4. [Kiss_Me_Bum]
5. [Mitsune]
6. [Carol Lynn]
7. [Pale-Suzie]
8. [Blackshire]
9. [sarah l b]
10. [minifer]
11. [Scooz]
12. [dimmu_borgir3212]
13. [Arbor]
14. [Lily~]
15. [Tidd3]
16. [Rondel]
17. [Nukleopatra]
18. [VorpalBlade910]
19. [ei33]
20. [Fallen_Angel_666]
21. [Tehrror]
22. [Project Elysium]
23. [kate katastrophe]
24. [Kayne]
25. [Glorybox.]
26. [Tormenta]
27. [deja vu, mi amor]
28. [Veltzeh]
29. [Your Christ Is Dead]
28. [Mania Rage]
29. [Delight]
30. [Davorah]
31. [x_bubblicious]
32. [Alfirin Lindlea]
33. [Christie Shadow]
34. [// Grace //.And..Bend]
35. [Carol Lynn]
36. [Furr]
37. [Dil*]
38. [Pyra]
39. [Yoruno]
40. [Magic Circle]
41. [sophomoric]
42. [Doormat]
43. [how about no?]
44. [Hermes322]
45. [Icetigris]
46. [Tiezu Star]
47. [Elrohir Elensar]
48. [God called in sick today]
49. [BrokenPromise7x]
50. [Pillowthief]
51. [Blue Raspberries and Grape Juice]
52. [Not Here!]
53. [My Chemical Erin]
54. [Sue Falkenkralle]
55. [Anduraja]
56. [Bullet with Butterfly Wings]
57. [JinXTheMoodieAl]
58. [Morrigon]
59. [tiragon]
60. [Nostradamia]
61. [Jinji-Chan]
62. [Hazel]
63. [to a new?]
64. [jojo-kun]
65. [Anon Y. Mous]
66. [CharlotteCrying]
67. [Lashinnian]
68. [Tolmeni]
69. [Rosie.]
70. [*~A Cure For Contempt~*]
71. [AbLam]
72. [P(e)Ta]
73. [bodhranbabe]
74. [kaomi]
75. [Yiwerra]
76. [Bad Wolf]
77. [I stabbith ye]
78. [Eldanár Oronar]
79. [a faerie tale]
80. [kay-chan]
81. [Hufflepuff Lolita]
82. [deranged-bugosh]
83. [Bad Wolf]
84. [Blue Raspberries and Grape Juice]
85. [Cenyre]

Not the church, not the state, only the women should decide their own fate!

Have a different opinion? Check out pro-life and Against Abortion League.

2004-08-31 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: I don't think [Acomplished Exile] did...

2004-08-31 [sophomoric]: not the big paragraph, but he added the "(murderers)" portion at the top.

2004-08-31 [sophomoric]: It would also stand to reason that it's someone with an already active account, which they can of course trace whoever used the account [heaven sent] to any other account that has been using the same machine...

2004-08-31 [Veltzeh]: Proves that pro-baby people are more stupid... we pro-choice people don't go around messing their wikis even if we disagree with them!

2004-08-31 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: ahh... that's not alowed right?

2004-08-31 [sophomoric]: Yeah, that's not allowed. You can get banned for messing with people's wikis.

2004-08-31 [sophomoric]: People of the pro-choice ideal have just as much of a right to speak their minds without being harassed as pro-lifers. There is, however, a difference between harassment and debate. Stating your position against another's is debate; the act of changing the wiki is harassment. And while that act was stupid, it doesn't mean that all pro-lifers are so self-serviant and ignorant.

2004-08-31 [Veltzeh]: Yep... remind me to type up once again that "due to recent actions it seems to be this way even though I'm well aware that this doesn't concern every single one of them". Sigh.

2004-08-31 [sophomoric]: lol... sorry... need to defend, even if I disagree.

2004-08-31 [Acomplished Exile]: I'm sorry, I was bored. We pro-lifers aren't stupider than you choicers, I don't want to represent myself as the whole image of a group, anyway ill try this shitty though truly excuse. rite now over pr there is a storm, school is out and im bored to death so i figured i had a lil fun with my friend tony. sorry peeps

2004-08-31 [sophomoric]: Uhh... stupider isn't a word...

2004-08-31 [sophomoric]: Also, as you did something that is disallowed due to the rules of elftown, boredom is not an appropriate excuse.

2004-08-31 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: sorry [Acomplished Exile], I am not pro choice, but I agree with [sophomoric]. If you want people to respect your opions you are going to have to act a little more mature

2004-08-31 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: sorry [Acomplished Exile], I am not pro choice, but I agree with [Sophmoric]. If you want people to respect your opions you are going to have to act a little more mature

2004-08-31 [sophomoric]: Thank you. As long as we can be... civil in our disagreements... we can at least be able to share our ideas without striking out at the character of one another.

2004-08-31 [Blackshire]: Is that moron still here?

2004-09-01 [Acomplished Exile]: yes.

2004-09-01 [Blackshire]: Thought so. But where is my pro killing babies and against abortion bitch?

2004-09-01 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: maybe he's learned to shut up?

2004-09-01 [Delight]: Wow.... um.... i apparently ahve missed quite a bit on my Summer reading fiasco.

2004-09-01 [Blackshire]: No he's just not online. Hehehe I love my sadistic bitch =D

2004-09-01 [Blackshire]: But hey if you don't believe in what we do then why are you even in here?

2004-09-01 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: well sometimes I particapate in debates....And sometimes I tell stupid people from Against abortion (namely [Acomplished Exile]) to quite making asses of them selves

2004-09-02 [Acomplished Exile]: i was bored =)............................im not your bitch you sick-o................this thread represents the culture of death........stem cell reaserch............your condom broke?? deny the baby life............no problem, killing is the thing ya'll.............death penalty and so much more.

2004-09-02 [Blackshire]: Dear gawd no I wasn't talking about you. Jeez I'm about to throw up at the very thought. Don't flatter yourself. I was obviously talking about [Nukleopatra].

2004-09-02 [Mycalkoli]: Personaly I think women should be able to choose, if the fetus is at the stage before consciousness it is not killing. And Deveel shut it you're being an insensitive jackass, it isn't just about the condom breaking what about rape victems

2004-09-02 [Nukleopatra]: OMFG why the fuck would he think you were talking about him? AAAAHHHHHHHH!!! yes yes i'm going to make a wiki for people eho are pro killing babies and against abortion that way only I could be a member :D Shards you can be a member if you want. i know how you feel about some stuff =)

2004-09-02 [Nukleopatra]: and yes i am forever going to be your sadistic bitch

2004-09-02 [Mycalkoli]: Hey Aden =)

2004-09-02 [Nukleopatra]: hieeeeee!!! oh and [The Scarlet Pumpernickle], i never shut up so sorry =(

2004-09-02 [Blackshire]: XD hahahaha! Jeez what's up everyone's arses today?

2004-09-02 [Mycalkoli]: Alright I'm not gonna comment on that XD

2004-09-02 [Blackshire]: RIGHT ON guys. He needs to fuck off. It's not his place in telling what a woman does with her body! Deveel this is for pro-choice not pro-life.

2004-09-02 [Mycalkoli]: There you go.

2004-09-02 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: ok....now I'm just confused...Shards when you asked "you don't believe in what we do then why are you even in here?" Were you talking to me? I asumed you were...since I was one of the last comenters........or did I screw up when I thought [Nukleopatra] was talking to me? I don't understand! Who talked to me? Did anyone?

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: okay i'm in, i've formed an opinion and i guess i'm too left liberal to go any other way :)

2004-09-02 [Blackshire]: I was talking to [Acomplished Exile]. I don't understand why he wants to keep commenting in a message board where everyone else has diffent opinions and he's trying shove his opinion down everyone's throat.

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: usually in wikis like this, people having differing opinions is fine, but [Acomplished Exile] is just being a prick.

2004-09-02 [Blackshire]: That's right. He won't respect our different opinions.

2004-09-02 [Acomplished Exile]: i respect you, i jsut dont undestand you.........non provided a good argument to my culture of deat haccusations, i knw oits much more than a broekn condom, its life.

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: okay..have you read the stuff up there?

2004-09-02 [sophomoric]: Well, circumstancially, it's a matter larger than "broken condoms" and "rape" but then again, it's in the interest of life at times.

2004-09-02 [Acomplished Exile]: answer me this. do you destroy life(liek yours and mines) when you abort?

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: umm..can you restate the question..(it doesnt make sense..)

2004-09-02 [sophomoric]: The question is a matter of uncertainty... If a child is born, but is in a coma all their life after birth... for 18 years or so... Is taking them off life support immoral?

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: i think what makes us human, what makes us different from the animals is our brains, our knowledge, our memory and personality..and if the brain isn't even developed..well, then i wouldn't call abortion murder.

2004-09-02 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: It could be... you never know if some miracle will happen and the person will wake up

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: ya, but it costs very large sums of money to keep the person on life support..the govt could spend it better housing the homeless and such.

2004-09-02 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: I guess there are two views to everything...It's hard for me to say but I guess in cases like these it's better to chose the lesser of two evils

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: the lesser of the two evils eh..hmm depends on how you look at it >.<

2004-09-02 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: I mean would it be better to save a (excuse the term) vegtable on the chance that they might wake up while other people are dying for lack of food or whatever...or is it better to pull the plug and save and or make life better for other people?

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: ya i would say pull the plug after like many years..like 5/10 years..

2004-09-02 [Acomplished Exile]: i did not say it was murder, i did not ask you to talk to me about some stupid coma kid, stop spinning please!focus! answer me right!yes or no, simple and why!

2004-09-02 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: if you want people to answer you then type so they can read it.

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: no, because i don't think the fetus is alive until the brain developes fully.

2004-09-02 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: But that mean that you don't think you are alive...your brain will not be fully developed until you are twenty-one

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: oh..ummm..that's not what i meant,,,-_-;

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: okay i'm trying to multitask ere' and it ain't working..soo, does the fetus have any thoughts or anything while it's in the womb?

2004-09-02 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: Acctually I think they do...I'm not sure wear I saw it..but there was a study that someone linked to that said that childern in the womb have dreams

2004-09-02 [sophomoric]: "i think what makes us human, what makes us different from the animals is our brains, our knowledge, our memory and personality..and if the brain isn't even developed..well, then i wouldn't call abortion murder." brain isn't fully developed until age 21.

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: ya..someone already said that :P

2004-09-02 [sophomoric]: it may have been me... it's a point I have necessary to reiterate endlessly.

2004-09-02 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: I know a girl who was taken by cesarian when she wformed at twenty-one weeks...how can you say it's not murder? In my town there is also a woman who Was aborted, the doctors saved her and she is living a normal life...How can you destroy something that has the potential to become anything? just think...one of the many aborted children could have finnaly brought about world peace... you never know what could have happened....as 4 months...she's going into grade one this year and was held back only one year...a abortion can still be performed at 21 weeks

2004-09-02 [Dil*]: ya i heard that somewhere too..it just got lost in the chasm of my mind..

2004-09-03 [sophomoric]: Actually, it can be proven that world peace would not have come about by now, mostly due to the fact that no one can agree on anything. Just think, one of the many aborted children could have turned into a rapist or a mass murderer. For example, Hitler was nearly aborted.

2004-09-03 [sophomoric]: Now let us also consider that potential means absolutely nothing, and I hate when people use potential as an argument as though it contained any semblance of validity. I have the potential to be anything I want to be. I've been this all my life as elementary school rhetoric, and again after I completed an IQ test. I have the potential, that doesn't mean it's an end I can arrive to. One needs to accept the potential for either course is equal. Good and evil.

2004-09-03 [sophomoric]: You could also argue that it was fated that those people survived. Otherwise they would not have survived, and they would have been just another mass of cells. What about people sent to war, to die. Wars are accepted, and while they are not morally right, they are still a point of some relative necessity.

2004-09-03 [Acomplished Exile]: sophmoric you are so full of shit. . . . . . . . . There is life in the fetus, you know why? cuz like me, there are a bunch of cells in there reproducing rapidly, you and me were fetuses, there for a fetus is a stage of life, therefor you destroy life in abortion and dont negate this and sophmoric shut the hell up please, you shit is unnesecary and it only spins away from the topic.

2004-09-03 [Blackshire]: You need to learn to respect other people's opinions, Deveel.

2004-09-03 [Acomplished Exile]: she doesnt post opinions-she post pointless garble, she never answers me

2004-09-03 [sophomoric]: Oh, then what of animals? Killing them for human consumption is the destruction of life, as is cutting down of trees. Life by nature is created and subsequently destroyed. The means by which it reaches this end is often deemed morally disagreeable, however your opinion is just as valid as anyone elses. Therefore I will not accute you of slandering my character and rather, I will question the validity of your statement. What is the point you are trying to make? Life is destroyed through abortion, yes... your point?

2004-09-03 [Veltzeh]: [Acomplished Exile], we're talking about vaguely related tangents here just because YOU won't understand direct talk as you've oh so many times proven already. Your question cannot be answered with a simple yes or no if you care a single bit about the reasons behind that answer and wish to understand it.

2004-09-03 [Acomplished Exile]: so my point is...........isitn that killing? it is, its liek killing you right now, im rpeventing life, when you commit abortion for a dumb reason such as broken condom or poverty you kill(destroy life) senselessly, the only way i can allow abortion if its the mtoher's life is in dnager, apart from that, why should mommy prevent baby from living?

2004-09-03 [Veltzeh]: Yes, it is killing. And since when has killing been wrong? It's generally not (we kill billions of animals, plants, bacteria, sperm cells and the like). It depends on the one who's being killed. That's where our differences are. And please fix your spelling and grammar. That's terrible to read.

2004-09-03 [Acomplished Exile]: dude you fucking suck. you are sick! your values and mroals are on the fuckign flloo0r you piece of scum gosh you are horrible ughhhhhhhhhhh.............killing is right?wtf? So I can kill you?A human life is worth much more than bacteria......gosh bacteria is an illness gosh you truly suck ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you piece of shit............your answers and examples are sickening, you are nto a true human being, you dont apreciiate life what so ever. were is your mother? did your daddy not tell you? god jesus im shocked you piece of shit. Peaplo like you make this wolrd sick and i wont respect you nor your opinion, it is not an opinion, its an illness, you are fucking sick

2004-09-03 [Veltzeh]: ... Even I wouldn't have thought you were that stupid. Once again I made the mistake of underestimating stupidity. [Acomplished Exile], you're an idiotic self-sufficient brat who has no common sense or any other sense for that matter. You're immature and obviously can't understand ANY other point of view than your own. Get out of here.

2004-09-03 [Veltzeh]: You're killing millions of sprem cells per day. You're committing horrible homicides, did you know that?

2004-09-03 [Acomplished Exile]: how?I dont masturbate, rarely, if you meant that.and it is still wrong

2004-09-04 [Dil*]: ya and woman get their period everymonth..we're killing eggs and potential life, the question is: When would you consider it to be alive?

2004-09-04 [Acomplished Exile]: it is nto alive because it is not united with the sperm, if you elt that egg grow it will grow and become nothing. that is why its a naatural process(menstruation). now sex is antoher natural rpocess in wich you create life by this one, naturally you dont kill it, us humans with are tech and bullshit kill life, we dont have the right yet we act like Gods

2004-09-04 [Acomplished Exile]: I must say, your logic and sophmoric's are quite ammusing.

2004-09-04 [Blackshire]: Dude you need to stop insulting people like that because of their different beliefs. If you continue I think you should leave.

2004-09-04 [Blackshire]: Telling people the "fucking suck" is totally not acceptable. You need to grow up and think about what your saying because you post another bullshit message up here.

2004-09-04 [Acomplished Exile]: look............I maybe out of line sometime but come on.............if you cant seewhat I see then you are blind. all of you here take those fucking blinders off your eyes

2004-09-04 [Blackshire]: I'd rather you leave us alone because abortion is an argument that is never going to be won. Being behind blinders is your opinion. And I am not going to change my opinion about abortion just because of a child thinking he can tell a wmoan what not to do with her body. If you were married and your wife was pregnant then you would have some sayso but since you're not it comes off as you being an arse and disrespecting others in a matter which you have no place in saying.

2004-09-04 [Nukleopatra]: yeah gawd leave us alone please

2004-09-04 [VorpalBlade910]: yeah i'm with shards, damn we see were you're coming from, goood lord, you have your freakin attention, now go, everyone has there beliefs, you've made yours known, bravo for you

2004-09-04 [Veltzeh]: [Acomplished Exile] is an immature brat who doesn't understand anything nor does he have the slightest desire to understand anything. I didn't mean masturbation, you moron, your stupid genitals produce sperm whether or not you eject it. Also, bacteria are not only things that cause diseases. If you had ever read even basic biology, you'd know that they also protect our bodies and so on. But obviously you haven't. Here we come into the point that why most of the people who oppose abortion are religious people who have never even heard of biology, and those who are pro-choice are often qualified doctors and others who have even the basic knowledge of biology and physiology.

2004-09-04 [Veltzeh]: But I need to stop now... I forgot the first rule about idiots: Never argue with an idiot, because they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. Note to all the other people: let's all just ignore [Acomplished Exile], and he'll stop. If he doesn't, I guess we could report him to the guards for harassing...

2004-09-04 [VorpalBlade910]: three cheers for [Veltzeh] i'm with ya!

2004-09-04 [Veltzeh]: Yay! =)

2004-09-04 [Nukleopatra]: shards reported him him to the guards hehehe

2004-09-04 [Veltzeh]: Actually, I did, too... but for messing with the wiki. I wonder if we've sent in multiple reports about that...

2004-09-04 [Nukleopatra]: i wouldn't be suprised.

2004-09-04 [Acomplished Exile]: vetlzeh your argument is so weak and stupid....................you have no respect for human life watso ever you scum..................how can you comapre a bacteria to a baby?what is wrong with you? its like saying we are all just bacteria. you are sick missy. so..............if you were sick i guess we could jsut kill right?I mean its just another life and it would cost the state and shit less? your logic is very very depriving

2004-09-04 [Acomplished Exile]: and you all know why she wants to ignore me?cuz im telling her the thruth, she knows that but she just spins away, so dont be ignorants like her, stan up! prove me wrong!

2004-09-04 [Blackshire]: Nah we'd rather you fuck off. I'm going to ignore you as well.

2004-09-04 [Veltzeh]: You know what would be nice? If we could ban someone from commenting on a certain wikipage, like we can do with members...

2004-09-04 [Blackshire]: I should be the owner so I could delete all his posts. Where the hell is the owner anyway?

2004-09-04 [Veltzeh]: She's rather rarely online... I could basically be the owner too, I'm almost always online.

2004-09-04 [Veltzeh]: Finally added my own little piece up there... I think I did it just to plug my creation, hehe. And corrected a few typos, of course. ;-)

2004-09-04 [Zauberin]: *finishes reading the last two pages of coments* well that was certainly amusing...

2004-09-04 [Blackshire]: I guess.

2004-09-04 [Zauberin]: its entertaining sometimes to read arguments involving uneducated opinionists... i mean opinions are all fine and good, and everyone is entitled to their own, but you simply cant argue them unless you have some kind of facts to back them up, right?

2004-09-04 [Veltzeh]: Exactly...

2004-09-04 [Dil*]: ya...

2004-09-04 [Pyra]: hiya, Dil...hello, everyone else that I don't know! ^^

2004-09-05 [Acomplished Exile]: I have 10000 of facts to back up,

2004-09-05 [Zauberin]: ok then, tell ya what. you go create a wiki listing your 10,000 facts backing up your argument, and we might read it, and then we might reconsider the validity of your claims. Have fun! and remember, we're expecting to see TEN THOUSAND facts, so I guess we'll be reading your wiki in a few months :D

2004-09-05 [Mitsune]: He's been given another chance???!!!

2004-09-05 [Zauberin]: and I hope you understand the meaning of the word FACT, because if you dont, youre wasting everyones time... again.

2004-09-05 [Mitsune]: The guards are so nice... to have let him come back..

2004-09-05 [Zauberin]: the guards give a lot of kids a second chance... lets see if he deserved it. Seriously, if he can come up with 10,000 facts to back up his seemingly weak argument, maybe we really ARE all wrong... *dubious*

2004-09-05 [Dil*]: *nods*

2004-09-05 [Zauberin]: hmm but nothing to say to my comments... afraid little one? afraid you just LIED about having facts?

2004-09-05 [Dil*]: <img:http://elftown.lysator.liu.se/img/drawing/27888_1083335857.jpg> bush haters association if you hate bush, join now!

2004-09-05 [Pyra]: Damn him! I have an uncle in the army!

2004-09-05 [Acomplished Exile]: Bush Supporters Association join us. . . . . . as for the 10000 facts I was obviously exagerating but tell you what,i will do such wiki with as many reasons as i can find.........who knows maybe there are 10000...................so what shall i call it?

2004-09-05 [Nukleopatra]: exageration is the lowest form of wit...

2004-09-05 [Pyra]: Hmmm....but it is fun....>.<

2004-09-05 [sophomoric]: Remember... 10,000 FACTS

2004-09-05 [Dil*]: lol...high promise, low delivery...where's the facts [Acomplished Exile]?

2004-09-05 [Zauberin]: hey give him a little time... 10,000 is a lot of facts to type out :D

2004-09-05 [Dil*]: he hasn't even bloody started..and i don't think he's going to.

2004-09-05 [Veltzeh]: There's something in his diary... but if those are "facts", I'm the Santa Claus. XD

2004-09-05 [Dil*]: .<

2004-09-05 [Veltzeh]: ...Or some other equally clichéd statement that you can think of... I left my brain in front of the TV today.

2004-09-05 [sophomoric]: "Abortion is wrong because God said that if people killed their unborn children that we'd all be damned to walk the earth for an eternity... and that we wouldn't be allowed to eat nachos."

2004-09-05 [Dil*]: lol.

2004-09-05 [Veltzeh]: Hehehe. X-)

2004-09-05 [Acomplished Exile]: let me clar this up, i aint reaching up to 10000, i am writting them in my diary for now,i will try noot to use religion in most of them and they all dont have to be sereious, some may be like-he aint got the chance to kiss a girl- as an example.

2004-09-05 [Veltzeh]: Could you possibly make less sense, please? Not that I'm not laughing now, but still!

2004-09-05 [Veltzeh]: Now, let's all ignore together!

2004-09-05 [sophomoric]: Ignore what? :P

2004-09-05 [Dil*]: his feeble attempts to convince us?

2004-09-05 [sophomoric]: it was sarcasm..

2004-09-05 [Veltzeh]: Hehe. I have to keep reminding people... it's so easy to forget, even I did, for a while... so, until I or [Blackshire] gets the ownership of this page, we just have to ignore. Afterwards I or he can just delete those comments. =)

2004-09-05 [Acomplished Exile]: HEY, DONT IGNORE ME NOW, i think im doing okay, i mean im i insulting you? no, im actually giving into your demands, open up now ladies and gentles

2004-09-05 [sophomoric]: You know, it just struck me as interesting that the pro-life people believe that they have the right to force life on the fetus. For example, if I had been aborted, I would probably have been a lot more greatful to suffer inexistence than this existence... So it's funny...

2004-09-05 [Veltzeh]: Yep, I agree, [sophomoric].

2004-09-05 [sophomoric]: Not only that, but when the fetus is at the fetus stage, it's loss, if one of a matter of choice on part of the parents is one that bares little to no emotional repercussions, while a teenage suicide affects many... so it's a toss up.

2004-09-05 [Acomplished Exile]: fetus is an excuse. im a fetus too i guess cuz my heart beats, my cells reproduce. anyway check it out- life is a privilage

2004-09-05 [Veltzeh]: Yeah... everyone says how all life, or even all human life should be considered equal... but no, children can't vote and so on... And as far as I know, in some countries even fully grown women aren't considered humans. It's just so contradictory...

2004-09-05 [Acomplished Exile]: we are not talking about laws made by humans on voting and shit, we are talking about life. something natural, voting is not natural

2004-09-05 [Dil*]: choosing is natural though..same as voting.

2004-09-05 [sophomoric]: Humans are far from natural. Everything we have is some perversion of nature. Television isn't natural, yet we still watch it, the consumption of meat isn't natural yet we still do it. Synthetic materials aren't natural, yet we create them. Medical science isn't natural yet we still use it to save lives.

2004-09-05 [Pyra]: .......[Acomplished Exile]....shut up...your pissing me off...

2004-09-06 [Acomplished Exile]: eating meat is natural and watching tv does not affect the life of your son does it? and those are diferent things, non related.

2004-09-06 [Acomplished Exile]: choosing is not natural cuz in the old time ppl could not choose, now that we have this machines and shit we can choose so it is not natural, you know what is natural?you know why you have your period every month?that is natural, life is natural.

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: umm..what the hell? of course choosing is natural, why wouldn't it be? even peasants could choose what fruit they ate or whatever.

2004-09-06 [Acomplished Exile]: im not talking about that...............in old times how woudl you choose? you couldn't but now its been altrered.................gosh dilandau

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: no..in the old times they had much more gruesome ways of abortion.

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: hahahaha!! Yup....like cutting the stomachs of the mothers up...O.O

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: or sticking a long needle in there to kill the fetus..if something is wrong with the fetus...the mother naturally aborts.

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: hmmm.....

2004-09-06 [VorpalBlade910]: ........

2004-09-06 [sophomoric]: Eating meat isn't natural, learn about the human digestive system you moron. Compare it to those of omnivores and carnivores and then compare it to those of herbivores. Television DOES affect the live of your son/daughter and medical science HAS changed the world because people that via nature WOULD have died have been allowed to live. You have as little right to force your morals on others than anyone else has a right to force an abortion on a pregnant teen. It is their choice, not yours.

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: i'm not joking.

2004-09-06 [VorpalBlade910]: HAHA omg you have got to be jking.....the media does affect or lives...but good god....eating meat isn't natural, aborting a child isn't natural....get a life....you're opinion counts, but so does ours, so shut up!

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: How about, this is a wiki supporting abortions, jackass. So get the fuck out

2004-09-06 [sophomoric]: I have a life, very much of one, the thing is, I don't think others have a right to decide whether or not a woman HAS to bare the child... It's not your right, it's not my right... She could do it with a coat hanger if she really wanted to.

2004-09-06 [VorpalBlade910]: than what's your problem!? omg...will the owner please delete this person's comments and get 'em out

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: Thank you, Soph! I don't understand why fuck bags have to comment on this wiki...

2004-09-06 [VorpalBlade910]: cause they are guys that beat their wives and rape women and are messed up in the head and don't think we should have rights.... -.-

2004-09-06 [sophomoric]: Uhhh.... Why the hell are you getting on my case Vorpal? I'm pro-choice!

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: It's none of your business! Why can't women have the rights? huh? huh? Wemon should have everyright to do whatever the hell they want with the thing that they are carrying

2004-09-06 [VorpalBlade910]: because i've been watching your rants and crap for the last like week, trying to stay outta it and just let it roll off...but gzz...it's 'unnatrual' to eat meat...just god....please do us a favor and shut up for a while

2004-09-06 [sophomoric]: You know, maybe if you could open your fucking mind to the fact that it acts as a form of analogy as opposed to anything else. I'm not forcing my moral values on anyone you dumbass I'm making the point perfectly clear that whether something is natural or not is irrelevant because we do it all the same. So if you could just stop talking about stupid shit like that or at least think about what you're going to type before you do I'll be able to tolerate you a lot better.

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: ummm....eating meat is natural....why do you think there are animals? SO WE CAN EAT THEM. I love animals more than humans, but geez, I'm not gonna restrict myself just because an animal is 'sacred' fuck...

2004-09-06 [sophomoric]: *bashes head against wall* Research the human digestive system, research the fact that we need to cook meat otherwise we suffer from food poisoning, the fact that our canines are the shortest out of all the great apes, most of which are herbivores, and provide me with some factual evidence and maybe I'll listen to you. I AM NOT TRYING TO TURN PEOPLE VEGETARIAN! It's SUPPOSED to be an anology that's easily understood since pro-lifers argue that abortion is wrong because you are taking a life so I use the vegetarian thing as an anology. Pure and simple. I don't give a shit if you eat meat.

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: Okay, okay calm down children..we are all pro-choice here..the pro-life people are probably laughing their asses off at us

2004-09-06 [sophomoric]: If any fucking moron wants to debate this matter with me, do it in private messages. All I have ever done in this wiki is support the fact that women have a right to choose. If you have a problem with my methods take it up with me, but at least I know the basic of rational argument rather than slinking down to name calling and relying on matters viewed to be common sense.

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: Alright, alright...I just anger quickly...and if the pro-life people are looking at this...then I say "FUCK YOU, PRO-LIFERS!!!" lol...

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: okay, stop with the swearing, it's degrading...

2004-09-06 [VorpalBlade910]: HAHAHAHA riiiiight......sure...go you

2004-09-06 [sophomoric]: I'm sorry but I can't stand it when people decide to take a stance against an entirely relevant argument in favour of their own position because of some personal insecurity. It gets to be very tedious to just sit around and take it.

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: *pout* alright....I'll quit with the swearing..lol....I can't help it...hahaha

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: read the comment in order above..it doesn't make much sense.

2004-09-06 [VorpalBlade910]: yeah apparently.....ya know what, i'm not going to say anything, this is stupid, go rant all you want

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: oh dear.

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: I thought it was a pro-life that made the vegitarian comment...And once again, I made an arse of myself...XD

2004-09-06 [VorpalBlade910]: HAHA screw it

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: ..>.<

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: I'm such an arse....but you guys love me anyways, right? *razzes you all* RIGHT?! *cries*

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: *hugs* lol, sure.

2004-09-06 [VorpalBlade910]: ah don't worry, you're coo pyra

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: sorry, [sophomoric]...I didn't mean to come out all bitchy...I've just had a tough week...lol...

2004-09-06 [sophomoric]: Whatever, since I've apparently frustrated several people with my arguments, I will hereby remove myself from the wiki.

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: tougher than usual....lol....

2004-09-06 [sophomoric]: and that wasn't to you, pyra. I'm over that so all is well.

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: eh...okay, start some shit with support bush then :P

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: wait...since I'm a complete idiot, I need clarification, if you will. Are you a supporter of abortions, or against the concept?

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: ..[sophomoric] supports abortions..he's pro-choice..

2004-09-06 [VorpalBlade910]: noooo bush sucks.....my opinion and please...if you like busch....don't start ranting at me....it's my opinion that's all i'm saying

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: no, i hate bush..i just like going into support bush and debating people..

2004-09-06 [VorpalBlade910]: ....HAHA, so i take it you know [Lordterrex] from there?

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: Yeah! Lets kick up a storm in bush supporters!! anyone wanna come with Dil and I?

2004-09-06 [VorpalBlade910]: haha can i just watch?

2004-09-06 [Pyra]: hmmm....hahaha.....and I hate to sound Naive, Soph...but you have a way with words that I could never have...XD now that I have that out of my system...

2004-09-06 [Dil*]: yes..i know [Lordterrex]..

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